Investing Stuff You Should Know

Bernard Reisz - 1031, Retirement, & Tax Advising Wizard and Consultant

April 01, 2022 Johnny Nelson Season 1 Episode 7
Investing Stuff You Should Know
Bernard Reisz - 1031, Retirement, & Tax Advising Wizard and Consultant
Show Notes Transcript

Bernard Reisz is our in-house wiz at using retirement accounts in syndications, funds, and other investments. His mission to you as an investor is to be EMPOWERED with clarity, certitude, & control.
His team is not just selling paper and contracts, but have the expertise and knowledge to ensure full compliance

Email
bernard@resurefinancial.com

He has a fantastic educational platform as well,  see connection inks below.


From his Linked Profile:

Are You a Real Estate Investor? Be EMPOWERED with clarity, certitude, & control. Join the ReSure Financial Investor Education Space for Next Level tax, legal & financial education: https://members.resurefinancial.com/

For podcast episodes: https://www.resurefinancial.com/checkbook-control-retirement-learning-center/self-directed-financial-podcasts/

My goal is to empower you to optimize your finances and investing through the strategic use of tax, legal, & financial tools.

https://www.resurefinancial.com/self-directed-retirement-services/: Get direct control of tax-favored funds for real estate equity and debt opportunities using Checkbook Control IRAs, QRPs, Solo 401(k)s

https://www.resurefinancial.com/resure-1031-exchange-services/: Streamlined 1031 Qualified Intermediary Services, using smart tech & delivering expert personal assistance

AgentFinancial.com: Tax, entity, and financial services for real estate professionals, including 1031 & 453 advisory services, for real estate agents, real estate investors, and mortgage brokers. An integrated approach to tax and financial planning for real estate pros, focusing on their unique profiles and opportunities.

Prior to founding ReSure, Bernard served as Director of CoMetrics Partners, managing an array of engagements involving financial consulting and due diligence. Bernard advised owners of closely-held middle-market companies on advanced tax mitigation strategies.

As a guest on numerous financial, tax, real estate, and legal forums I deliver straight-talk and unique insight. Many of these are accessible at: https://www.resurefinancial.com/checkbook-control-retirement-learning-center/self-directed-financial-podcasts/

Want to connect? https://members.resurefinancial.com/


 Okay, record to cloud. Okay, good morning, Everybody I here at the investing stuff, you know. Podcast. i'm very excited to have bernard rice with us He is from New York. He's just looks like, I think, he just moved to new Jersey, and we're really excited to have his expertise. He has a lot of letters, you know, if you look at his linkedin profile a lot of letters after his name. But I mean he just told me he mates not just the letters but it's the competence. So we're gonna let him share the value. His knowledge, his expertise, and what his company offers and I think it's gonna be real value to the audience. So, Bennett, Thank you for being here with us. good morning, Johnny. So. thank you so much for having me based on the last 15 min of conversation. We'd have i'm super excited about you know this recording lots of good stuff to talk about on, and offline in terms of what we do. The value is about integrating i'd say expertise and execution in real estate tax tools. So we deliver tax tools that folks any about any real estate investor, prospective, real estate investor should be familiar with which is self-ductive retirement accounts, qualified retirement, plans, self-directed ira's Ira Alc ira trust whatever structure is out. There we deliver it. 1031 exchange entities, tax services, not tax returns. But so kind of the the total, the gamut of tax tools for real estate investors. Beautiful! Beautiful. Just let me let me jump in right there. So all that stuff is is very clinical let's give the people just a little bit of the human touch, and let's just just share like a minute of what where Bernard came from. I know it could be like you know you're skimming over. probably a very a wonderful life. But just give us a little quick background, so there's just a little human connection here with our audience. You got it. So what brought me to this point? I initially brought Cpa. Worked at a magic consulting firm initially accepted an offer from Pwc: But I was working with clients actually very high level work when I was in school, and what I very quickly noticed was that financial products and tax products are being pitched to ultra high net worth business owners. Yeah. And there is a huge chasm. For the most part the accountants know how to pump out a great tax return, but they do not have the expertise in these niches. You know they can kind of. They have a gut feeling about it, but they don't really know the tax code. The regulations, and they can't really advise on it and the other folks that are selling it again. They're primarily selling a product they may present it as an advisory. As, but for the most part it is just a product just like life. insurance. Right is a china, but it's been productized and so I stepped in to fill that gap. I actually called up Pwc. a couple of weeks 4 is about to join them, and I said, Sorry, but i'm gonna be taking my own path, and that's what and that's what this has been about It's a bit. About integrating the expertise, approaching these tax products from a position of intellectual expertise honestly, and integrity and bridging the chasm. What? what one thing intrigue me there. just we don't have to go too deep into it. What? what was the kind of the giveaway there you think you were in school? What kind of what was the giveaway? What what triggered you to to realize it? There was not a level of you know second and third order like understanding what's happening here versus just the product that's supposed to work good, and you slapped over this you know you put it you give it to somebody and they go do it like a like a tool. We know tools are, you know. I got to be put in the hands of master craftsmen. They got it. they got to do it. They have to handle it correctly. So what was what was the tip off there? So there were a whole bunch of them. The first one began is, you know people love answers, and I tell people questions are much more valuable than answers. Gotcha and one and i'll explain that in a moment. But what I realized is that when I first joined the manager consulting Firm right, I was still in school. I asked a lot of questions, and do you want to know what it will be, frank? It rubbed people the wrong way. they're like hey? This is just the way we do it. Just Just do it and just get on the just get on board here. This is just how this this this train rolls just goes this direction. And this is where this goes and you know be quiet and I was like what's like what you know there we were doing work. You know we're talking about very high-level work with millions and millions of dollars at Stake. And I was like, first of all is certain things procedures that we're doing that if you really understand what's going on. Maybe we don't even there are much more efficient ways to do it, and that level of understanding was where really was lacking. It took a year after year's time whatever I had suggested was ultimately adopted, but from that process from being inquisitive and asking questions and trying to, I realized that that was something that was missing. It was super procedural without a focus, and actually hey? Let's think about the real real substance of this whether it's the substance of tax code and labor code, or it's the substance of understanding of businesses transactions, and or contracts right so what are the things we I actually had to build when I was at its magic called salting firm. what? And ended up coming my way was anything that had never been done before. So the things that like . the anything that had been done. okay. But so anything that like was a new thing. Okay, Bernard will build it for us. So one of the things we started with something called Royalty audits These are audits of fortune. 500 companies, companies, household names. Maybe at this point I can say them. But how household names? So we all know, and they have no secrets Pennsylvania. It's still the same thing is huge podcast here so these are literally household names, and they know, let's say licensing agreements. With some of the most recognizable brands it's interesting to see who goes up behind the scenes. Understand what a brand is really about right and what intellectual property really is. Yeah, i'd love to begin to that what we're not going to do. But that's fascinating to me But Yeah, Well, we'll have to we'll have to keep on track here. But go ahead, please. So that was about all of a sudden taking up contracts right and reading through hundreds of pages of documents to figure out. How do we How it apply to a company? What the agreement was, and then how to test, to see if these companies are actually complying. Yes, contracts. Yeah. So that was that's what I started realizing that I kind of you know, if you want that I wanted to probably was inclined to take my own path. And one of the things that also happened was some of the companies. As I mentioned, there they were private companies that we were dealing with but that's called Middle Market Space. So companies with hundreds of $1,000,000 of revenue but they're still privately held and so we're dealing with the business owners. And then you start saying, Hey, what about this financial product? this guy told me. I can do this tax thing. I could set up a captive insurance company and save millions of dollars on taxes. Yeah, and that's kind of where I got my path which like Okay, now, let's go through the tax code. The regulations. the Irs procedures actually get into the substance of this That's where i'm sure yeah so thank you for sure that something that that that is relevant for just gives people context, you know, like what how what were you exposed to what it looked like, you know and we don't even realize the you know the high level of that in an arrogance. And just this very large institutions very, very smart people are a lot of people, and and how this stuff kind of goes on. So, you know, having seen and kind of been walked in those shoes and been in that space. Just gives like, Okay, you've as far as humans go you've been in around, surrounded and around some of the top performing institutions and people and ideas. You know in the us and maybe in the world so that's kind of you know, the kind of things you've been exposed to, and that gives I mean that's gonna that should give people some confidence the like it's not like you didn't like you know not not in the Hicks, and you read some kind of you know weird website and got some ideas so. But anyway, yeah, so let's that's good stuff very very good stuff here. So let's as we know so i'm you know there's a lot of syndicators will listen to the show, and then it's also you know i'm targeting you know fund managers and and capital razors here. So let's all that is to say that what are some ideas and some techniques? You can kind of take that as you wish that are very applicable to some of the things that you do, and some some of the value that you've you've been able to create with from your team for those kinds of folks so that it varies based on the profile and that's the key thing again. Everybody's got their own profile, so if you're a you a syndicator, you've got a very different profile. Then, you're limited partners, and a fund manager is kind of a different profile, as well, so everybody's got the different profiles and the different 2, and a different approach. Sure. so, and everybody gets impacted differently by certain tax tools. So, for example, let's talk about 1031 exchanges for a moment the reality is if you're a you know. Tenth real changes tend to be most applicable to an individual investor that buys properties right, or even a group of people partners that work closely together on an ongoing basis. and they may not even have any lps right they're they're all kind of gps that's where 1031 exchange is most easily easily applicable. We actually do that on our property? we do, we? close here in Minneapolis. we we came. We all came together, is just, we call a Jv. which channel is not quite the right term, but yeah, 1031 money came in as a tick, and you know we split it up between 5, you know, slide actual individuals and the 1031 money. So. yeah, I know exactly least that at that point I am somewhat familiar with that. Oh, I love that. I love that you do you I know you're asking the questions, but it's okay. Can I turn the tables and ask some questions to you? Yeah. Well, I'll probably stubble here like I wasn't the main guy, but you know, go and hit me with what you can. You're i'll probably i'd love to know because because this is great and you mentioned a tick, So did you guys go into this as a tick to begin with, where they was it it set up as a tick or did you do that after the fact we came into it. And this is a fascinating. This is this is not a fascinating topic here, Bernard, because we talked to very expensive lawyers across the country. And you would think this stuff is like you Go to you know the the middle of the giant tax code, and it's gonna spell out what to do. And like this high price, high price cpa in Philadelphia is not saying with this high price lawyer and Minneapolis, Minnesota, with who also was a Cpa. was saying, to do like a little different structure, and there's the new some new ones but actually some of it was a little bit more than nuance, and and some of it's kind of interpretive and it's like a little bit like well so you know how you get across this kind of this fuzzy, blurred line like we get kind of a little bit aggressive, or we are really on the safe side, and some things like that. So that was something I just was like. Oh, my crap! I Didn't know this is how this went I thought you just like you Look it up, and you do that, you know. So this stuff is very complicated, and you know, and the legal bill and this is not the point of your question was incredibly expensive. But yeah, we we we researched. We talked a lot of attorneys, and we finally went with one here local to Minneapolis, Minnesota, and we set it up initially as a tick for that 1031 money to come in. Oh, that's awesome and he's touching something. So this is exactly the crux of stuff. Most folks go to a 1031 qi and they're so like, Oh, can we do this? They'll say, Yeah, sure, you can do it a right tick, and The truth is, as you've learned, there is an incredible amount of complexity to do this, especially with ticks, Ticks are super fuzzy. The Irs has not given us The Irs has kind of told us, hey? These are like the 25 things we're gonna look at Yeah, but we're not telling you how to do it. We were given, you a very, very very broad box there's black and there's white, and there's a whole lot of fuzzy, and that's just the nature of ticks and i'm amazed by how many people say, Yeah, we did A. take the qi said we could do a tick, and we did a tick, and i'm like, So who did the documents for the So you actually did, you're you're encountering And I think you guys did it the right way by getting independent counsel yeah But that's really the the chasm that we're trying to bridge right, having that expertise as a 1,031. Qi. and actually conveying to folks yeah there's Fuzzy here and giving them the contours of that, not just saying, Yeah, you can do it as a tick. And let's just process the 1031 I think that's super important to make that point. Bernard and I like that, too. and the the Yeah. How that how that was set up was, you know, because we had. We actually had a little more confidence, that the you know you're not. You're not an expert at all in the space so then you're like relying on this, and then you're relying on professionals, and they're giving you slightly different advice and different ways of doing it it also was like some of the stuff is which is another. What other learning? and just to make a point of real quick is, you know. Have you been audited or not it's just passed past. other you know inspections and audits and things like that, and which is a strange way of saying that this this passes muster. But sometimes that's that's the other another way of getting some confidence too. If you were to bleeding edge of an idea you don't know whether it's going to pass an irs audit or not. So do we have to you know that's what's one benefit of using someone's experience. They're like, Yeah, this is pat this is past an audit, and also from I guess from illegal. And you know you have the mingling of the legal with the you know the financial with the Cpa. So our person had both of that, you know if it's very expensive, but also like well, he's looking he has a sense of both. So those are 2 other the 2 other ports, you know, having an awesome professional, you know. Maybe you can find that rare person with a Cpa and legal background, and also the fact that you know, have they as a company? Or is there a firm experienced yeah that that's exactly it. And that's how we came in we've seen so many people with that we we started from an advisory place right, giving independent advice, but then, kind of like we described. But then we realized that the how many people actually right we're getting it after the fact. Most folks frankly do not take the route that you took. The reality is, most folks say, Hey, I want to the qi right that's the quality of 1031 qualified intermediary. Yes, and they just process it for us and so that without pointing out. We've even seen people. the tenth 31 exchange is a deferral tool, and i'm going to provide some definitions just for for the audience, please. Yes, so it's what it means is it's a it's a non recognition tool. What do we mean when we say that? so when you sell a property, sell an asset at that point? You will realize a gain or a loss for tax purposes generally. Now realize again. right, these are. These are terms of science that we use. There are unrealized gains, realized gains, and then they are recognized gains and losses. So when you hold up. you're holding an asset say you bought it for a $1,000,000, and let's just say it'll keep it simple. You're adjusted basis and the property is a $1,000,000 All right. So so your basis in a property for tax purposes is not what you bought it at. It has to be adjusted for depreciation and other factors. Yeah. So So your tax basis is a $1,000,000 the fear market value of the property is Let's use $11,000,000. So we have a nice $10,000,000,000 a round number. right? So you have a $10,000,000 unrealized gain essentially right, because it's unrealized. The value was there, but there has not been a transaction that would actually result in realizing that game. When you sell our crop. Yeah, when you sell that property. And now you get $11,000,000 right so Now you have realized $10,000,000 of game. You got $11,000,000 minus a $1,000,000 of tax basis, $10,000,000 of realized gain. Now do you recognize that game which means to say, is for tax purposes? This recognized. Yeah, this is so important, man, like because we all throw these stuff around like 1031. It's like a thing that just flies out of our mouth, and like this particular point, I mean you know we're not. We're not trying to get like 2 nerdy and 2 like, you know, into the weeds are but like this is like this. Distinction is crux is like it's so crucial to like what like what actually happens? And what's the What's the legal definition of these things? And you know, so forth. So please continue. Yeah, this is this is really good. So what a 1031 exchange achieves is non-recognition of the gain right? So that gain does not get realized, and essentially it gets rolled in to the replacement property right? And then then that gain kind of stays with you until it's either realized till it's either recognized in a subsequent sale. Yeah, or you swap until you drop, and it never gets recognized. But it's a non-recognition tool it goes the other way as well. So let's flip the script right say you order. You had a property in which your adjusted basis is $11,000,000, and it was sold for 1,000,000. Okay, right Now, i've got this mental exercise but i'm with you So far, I guess we've got now you've got a realized loss. Yes, of 10,000,000 of right? Yeah. Okay, if you 1030. Now, what would you want to do with a loss? You want to recognize it for tax purposes? Right? Fair? Yeah. Yeah. okay. if you 1031, 1031 is a double edged sword, it will result. Non-recognition of a loss Wow! that's sucks. Now, if you work to give you an idea of and this is a bit perhaps I don't. It's not egregious. it's not really the role of the 1031 intermediary to look out for this, but it illustrates a point. We have seen people that have deferred losses they were selling a property they didn't have a good sense of what they're tax basis is, and what they're what how things would look upon sale for tax purposes. They just knew that they're selling and they get a lot of money when they sell. Yeah, right? And so they're like, Oh, we got to do a 1031 exchange called the 10 to the one. Qi. We can do an exchange for you yeah Here's the fee here. You sign up. They did a 1031 exchange, and they deferred a loss. This is this is astonishing. I mean i'd like you know It's just like with any numbers you don't think like you know, you think like you're in math class and you have like negative numbers and things like that like, Yeah, you can always go, you know, in the reverse of the equation. But this is actually a real life situation you may say that you've seen multiple. And you've actually just with just because of the I guess the the lack of knowledge. Ignorance may be a little bit strong. you can actually go the other way, and you completely. host. So that's that's just that's crazy I just like Well, right, that's 5 that's the first time I've heard of that. So that's incredible. Man. The takeaway is is that whenever you deal with a tax product? you you want to have product service provider that gets the whole picture. Yeah, And we'll try to share with you the broader picture, and you really want to have your own corner. your own tax pro that gets it. and those 2 folks can collaborate. Make sure you don't fall between the cracks absolutely yeah And you guys, I imagine you, you collaborate to that word you collaborate with other with people's There I mean most people have their own cpa or tact professional. you guys do consulting or work work with them, or are you coming out to the fact? What does that look like? Oftentimes so we do independent. Consulting, but to the greatest extent possible we would rather get folks at the point at which, before the fact, because after the fact and what we're seeing really a lot of this today in the self-directed space Yes, a lot of people that have a lot of surprises with their qualified retirement, plans, or self-directed. I arrays. i'm a lot of surprises and so as much as possible. We want to get folks before the fact, because sometimes after the fact there are aren't easy answers. So people are getting sometimes surprises that they're not in the right count structure for their profile. Or they're getting surprises with regards to you bit So it's wearily. We want the goal Our goal at restore is to get folks into the right structure from the get-go. So that hey? you're on the right path you've gotten a comprehensive perspective before you started and this way you're just kind. You can coast after that, without any speed. bumps gotcha man. Let's ask let's ask a particular point here and i've been encouraging people, and i've seen a few friends in the syndication space as well to you know as you engage with you know friends family and just you. maybe in maybe other professionals that are thinking about retiring, or maybe they have some money in their their retirement plans. Have you seen some people really get hosed in that space? And can you just give us a quick story about you know, some 400 onek, or something like that, or self-directed? You know Iras have like that coming in incorrect wrongly. And just give is, Can you give us an anecdote? There. Yes, this is actually getting gotten to be more and more prevalent. So because I mean just to to make the point like i'm gonna encourage like I want to. I want investors coming to my fun, my space, and you know other friends as well and like. This is this is relevant because, like I I The last thing I wanted someone to be able to, you know, put their retirement money in, and it goes wrongly or goes sideways. I mean not only is like from an sec perspective, but also like just the person to person like i'm promising to be a fiduciary of your money, and I want to know these I need to be aware of these things to tell people like, Hey, make sure this is you talk to. so until you get to set up right above a ball. But please go ahead. Yes, so There are many account structures now. There have been Every single investor has their own unique profile, and there was an account structure really to fit everybody. What we're seeing the the trouble is the challenge is It's very easy to just sell paperwork right So qualified retirement plans, for example, are actually easiest paperwork of all to just churn out so good because qualified retirement plans don't need a financial institution. Custodian they don't really it's just essentially a set of doctors events. Okay, So it's very it's very easy to just change the name on them, you know, to swap out the name and turn them out. Now the thing is qualified to timer plants. You actually need a unique profile to have them actually be qualified. So we are finding more and more people. that have set up, you know. There, say, hey? We have a qualified retirement plan and Then we'll have a conversation with them, and we'll say, Oh, do you actually meet the profile? Yes, there's something to be qualified right Yes, piece of paper that says, Qualify doesn't, make it qualified right, even if that piece of paper has an irs approval. Letter right. The Iris approval letter just means that that document right does not, you know, could be the backbone of a qualified retirement plan. But it doesn't mean that John it you know I actually usually say, Johnny, as a John doe has a for to use like. So i'm your diet so let's I you could beat on me. You can bid on me i've had words I didn't mean anything about me. So we say, you know, James, it doesn't mean Jane's You plan is actually qualified, sure. right So, having conversations with people that you know just had this conference. This is almost daily now. Okay, have you had any type of business? because, in order to do adopt the qualified retirement plan, you need a trader business. Yeah, no. Did anybody tell you that? no but Then we're accounting some folks that are like Yeah, somebody says into having a business, and so they said I should or set up an llc. So i've got this llc you know Does this llc have a business, does it? Do anything? Has it ever done anything like? No, so an lc is not a business right? And i'll see as a legal construct that provides acid protection. The Irs doesn't really care much about whether or not you have an Llc. Right. What they care about is, Is there a trade or business? Right? Yeah, and that's a tax definition there's a tax definition of trade or business in Llc. Has almost nothing to do with whether or not you have a trade, or or business. That will. People are out there thinking like, Oh, just this quick and dirty advice. This is a hack. you just threw up an Llc. And this is a trader business it's gonna it'll pass It'll pass muster and like that's like read read the read the words that's not what that's not with this that's not how you get through this right? Yeah. and the irs it doesn't Write a Llc. Is purely an asset protection thing right? Another thing. You actually find out there's so many people say they're forming an Llc. For the tax benefits. and your typical llc is actually almost invisible for tax purposes, meaning to say, No, there's nothing wrong with that right. It's just if somebody formed an llc to get tax benefits and llc doesn't provide tax benefits. So it your typical llc if it has a single owner that's called a single member llc. again. And this is legal ease, right so you don't form an Lc. With the irs right? you form it with the state it's a statutory entity, and it's the ire and the technical name. Technical term for an owner of an Llc. Is a member, so an Llc. that has one member is a disregarded entity for tax purposes. Catch up. Yeah. So so pick up just a yeah pulling it back to that. That idea of the negative kind of the negative things that happened. So you know people like recommend, you know, just get lc and you'll be qualified in your retirement plan. So continuing down that line, you know, so just bad things like you know. Just form an Lc. that doesn't cut it What are what are some other thoughts, or that people have are missed on just completely myth? Then there's the things qualified retirement plans are actually incredibly complex. Okay, incredibly complex that's not well that's not what the That's not what the people convey. Often you hear out in the common the pop you know Youtube and podcasts or something like that. They that's not what they convey so are incredibly complex in operation? Now and there's what is happening. as this follows now the sweet space to be because quality of time plans alone, with that complexity and flexibility does come some perks right, but it has to be it has to add up but has to make sense. so you either have to be ready to embrace the full compliance, rigor of compliance with somebody that gives you the straight talk about what that is. Yes, and really provides you know, the really debt service. An alternative is to be in a solo space. right? So a solo I qualified with timer plan that covers all. Well, not cars only that who's only eligible partners are the business owners and their spouses. Okay, has a lot less complexity, right so it's still more complex than an Ira. But at that point, the cost benefit is there Yeah, provided you're aware of the compliance requirements that apply because they're not really onerous, and provided you truly are so low. So what we are finding is a lot of folks that are, think that they have a sole qualified of a timer plan. But in the eyes of the irs the department of labor do not, and that is a very, very, very that's not a place to be. If you get caught with it. Yeah, yes, yeah. And so now what is, how does this crop up? So somebody may be a business owner and somebody's telling them hey? Oh, you don't want to provide this call for the time plan for your employees. Just set up a another Llc. and to have that Llc. Sponsor, the qualified retirement plan now aside the fact that we're finding folks that have that Llc. That has no trade or business right. They have some business that they do what they have employees. They're creating this ghost. llc that's not even a trader business. Yeah, but let's say it really has business the Department of Labor and irs. Say that you, you have to aggregate all your businesses that you own together. And so if you adopt it. Yeah, for some other business you've can't just do that. So there's a cat and mouse game. gotcha with the eye where folks over time have tried restructuring things open so they don't have to cover other employees. They? And then Congress and the Irs create new rules to ever get to kind of create this really intricate web. You know, because folks taxpayers innovate yes, and then Congress and the Irs entire labor go to Congress and say, Congress, We, this is not what you intended right, and folks are kind of the defeating your objectives just string stuff this way. Yeah. So we need new rules, and Congress says yeah we need new rules. I mean, not always does it work that way, but oftentimes so. This has been around, so we have a very, very complex blog of Reb. Of rules which says more or less to defeat these kind of ways of trying to structure things without having to aggregate. So we're finding a lot of folks that are think they have a solo qualified retirement plan. But in fact, do not, because they would have to be aggregated. That makes sense. yeah, So that's that's our those those those those points you made. And thank thank you for going like you. We cover like they were like kind of like bullet points, but they There was a lot of context, but you know, meet within them, and I think that just gives people an idea of how this goes you know the kind of you know the kind of trouble you can get yourself into, and and and that type of thing here. What? what? so as people what's the recommendation here So people let you say, let's take your and this is just somebody that I'm targeting, and just can make it about you know myself, and there's others out there you know there's a you know a doctor Now let's just go to the doctor and he's got some money to put and he's 55. How does a relationship work? So he lets you see he reached i'm, reaching out to him with a cold connection. We kind of get to know each other he wants to address in a syndication or a fund. And how does he? You know? How does he engage with you know you were? And he's got a you know 401 K. How do they engage with you guys? How does engage with me with you like? What is that kind of that that sequence look like? And how does everyone kind of benefit and what's that so the high? The high idea there is. I don't want him to be like wandering around him or her wandering around like trying to figure out like this is so confusing, you know. I keep getting, you know, you know. Telephone down one line after another. What does it look like? So they have a little confidence, and what to do? So the the honest truth is what they should really be doing. Getting objective information. Okay, for buying a product so i'll talk about the way we currently do things. Sure it evolves. But i'll tell you what we currently do things right? So to actually sell, qualified with time to plant paperwork. Yes, you can buy it, folks selling it for thousands of dollars. But the truth is, it just takes a couple of seconds. Boom! Here you go change the name it's just the same documents again and again. Right sure. So just to give people an option we make that available, and some people there are, and a couple 100 bucks. You're good to go you can sign up we'll give you the documents. But for folks and some people. But the truth is especially that kind of profile you're discussing that doctor. They should be getting they shouldn't just be getting paperwork. They should be getting objective, unbiased advice and I would encourage them. We do offer an advisory service. Yes, and and the financial industry. People should always look for the incentives. Yes, so look at the incentives now. So say somebody's got a syndicator and they're saying, Hey, here's this folks sign up with these guys. They do retirement plans. they are another way. They take retirement plans into the into their syndication. No, but they're also saying, Hey, use jaw use here we Go again. Use, Jill to set up your retirement plan Okay, okay, yeah, we'll do a webinar with Jill, and we'll do a thing with Jill and And here, right something that you should find out about the incentives. Right. So if Jill is giving the syndicator $500 for every single person that the syndicator refers. Yes, right, that's something The reality is the financial industry we know from Wall Street, and it's going to be true in real estate. Yes, look at the incentives. as war I think it's Warren Buffett, who says it you show me the incentives, and i'll show you I forgot exactly how it goes and I'll show you the the outcomes. so that I don't know I don't know that one. But it sounds good yeah it's a truism right now but it's it works it works if we can we know that there's a maximum. and it's true so we'll go with that yeah Oh, that's it. It's Charlie munger So it's that Warren Buffett Okay, Sorry cow his buddy. Bfs: Exactly. Now, you gotta know. But Charlie Munger, in a sense, though this you gotta get to know Charlie Munger as a thinker because he has done a little more writing and sharing of philosophy than Warren Buffett, and it's incredible stuff incredible stuff right and it's so many incentives and i'll show you the outcome. That's what it's good that's very good yeah So if you want, if you want to you want to get objective information because we're actually finding it specifically with doctors that are getting plan set up that don't follow that are not structured. that are failing controlled group tests, and they think they have a solo, and they don't. Yes, so they should really get objective info, just like you did for your 1031. Yes, get that objective invoke it's a small investment big. The costs, setting up a plan and being non-compliant. Is just not worthwhile that's a cost that can be astronomical. I don't want to put the numbers out there Yes, as long as you can get away with it. You get away with it. but we're finding is that when people aren't formed of that risk. They generally don't want to take it and the folks that have that risk are like they're not sure what there are no easy answers. Yeah, So yeah, you're really really stuck with it I know you don't want to give numbers there. But what would would just for the audience would be able to give a just percentage. So let's just say you know common numbers or 50 or 100 Let's go a 100 let's go 50. Let's you know that that's probably a little more challenging for you. If I if I was a you know let's have a lawyer and I wanted to like, I wasn't really quite sure, and I had an extra 50 to put in through my retirement, plan. What percentage of the that kind of consultation would would Does that run? So you like the advice and consultation, you know. Yeah, like the this actual setup is, you know, a few 100 bucks. Whatever can you give us? Give the audience a an approximate idea there in terms of the cost of the yeah, the cost, like you know. So it's, like if I if I put in 50 or 100, and I like that so like they're they're consulting with you guys, and, like they're like well not spend this much too you know like like I guess it's the kind of the risk of war like I don't really care if I lost 50, anyway versus like you know, getting solid advice, and it's like it's gonna be like 10% of of of whatever you're you're gonna put in. Yes, why do we do. But we don't manage money so right, we're totally indifferent to the amount of money that's going in, sure. But the thing that people should understand is with the financial products and almost any financial decision, but particularly financial products, You have to look at both your upside, And you're downside and the thing with tax, products. And it actually, in a sense, differs even then in a financial investment. Okay, So and and here's a difference let's let's start at the one extreme. Let's start with you Want to buy pair of shoes right. Your pair of shoes more or less Okay, 150 bucks, whatever it's gonna be that you're paying for the pair of shoes. Worst case scenario right for the most part you're out 150 bucks. right? Yeah, they just if they disintegrate it as you walk out the store wearing them right or something. Right? Exactly. So your your downside is capped unless like somehow does something to your feet, Right? Yeah, and Then it's right but that's pretty rare but that's that. That would be like, and that would be the like a hidden dine set downside. Then it's not really analogous right if that's a real concern. You want to make sure that doesn't apply because you're not just out a 150 bucks right. It's like, Oh, wow! This is a feat, but that's very rare investment Now, what's your upside with the shoes? It's not super right. an entire spectrum of upside of downside is really pretty narrow, right worst case and arrow. Your out 150 bucks Best case scenario. The shoes last. Well, and you don't have to replace them for 3 years, and so you saved 150 bucks right. They lasted long what's financial products an investment you put in 50 grand, worst case scenario right your limited partner, right? Or even if you're not a limited partner right if it's your own. It's it's a non-recourse loan more or less everything and a commercial deal worst case scenario. You're at your equity last case scenario this thing is worth 10 times as much. Right? Right? . Yeah, it's lopsided there yeah Oh, I love that. That's exactly it lopsided and that's the great thing about real estate is that you have that lopsided thing. It's beautiful, but with taxes. and compliance stuff the downs there's it gets very broad because the Irs Department of Labor hear about compliance. So if you spend $3,000 on a tax product and the Department of Labor comes in, or the Irs comes in, says that's not compliant. Yeah, it's not like Oh, you're out $3,000. It can be the penalties on that $3,000. deal can be hundreds of thousands of dollars. Sure, especially if somebody has they adopted a cloth for a time plan and they have employees right that gets magnified the amount of employees that they have 200. It's insane. So yeah and then of course, the the focus, I mean also just the mental and the the professional and the personal focus of dealing with a with an irs audit. I mean just like that devastating to any kind of product you human part ofivity, right? You know there's, just the cost which like you know could be It's there's no you know the cap, and that the government has infinite resources, and of course, your distraction as you're working through that and we've all heard these horrible horrible tax stories I mean it's yeah, I mean, you know it's very it's very yeah. The risk is, it could be very, very high. So we do right now. We do hourly consulting, but we also offer kind of like a fixed fee. We'll do the consulting and we'll also set up your plan all wrapped in. but we we kind of tell folks after we guide you you may actually say I don't want to do this sure but but the thing is, and people are like, Then why do I pay you if i'm not doing it. And I just actually this is a doctor that has conversation with yesterday I'm like still do it right. I'll find funny people that will do it for you did He Say, did he say he didn't want to do it? He's like? Did he decline kind of to go your path? You really need to say he actually did the advisory service. Okay, Gotcha, and and and then we're like and we pointed out to him that hey, you're an affiliate services group. And if you set up this plan you got to cover all your employees. Yes, and like, Okay, we can set up a plan that covers all your employees. If you'd like he's like no I don't want to do that, Then we're like okay, Then you you can't set up a solo plan that's not going to work. It's just not gonna work? Yeah, and he's like So what am I get from you guys? And We're like yeah he's like Why, the hell did I come here like, All right, and you were I were like, what do you mean? You Were about to pay somebody $3,500. Plus yeah, to set it up by all means. and not only that you can still set it up, and we'll do that same plan for you for 500 bucks. If you want to do it. no problem sure but he's like no. But you guys explained something to me now I don't want to do it, because if I do, it it can cost me I like, okay, so up. If a penny saved is a penny earned Yes, so it's under you. Talk about unrealized potential gain or but unrealized potential, not having problems, I mean, like it's literally. It's almost infinite like what that potential is saving like he actually got, you know, caught, or you know, got under audit. So nobody just got informed ahead of. Yeah. now, there is now enough of the downside. If there is a structure I'm gonna do it Let's go deeper here, I just think there's an a week. There's a lot of focus. There is a structure for almost everybody. There are very rare scenarios where there is the structure that will work, Gotcha. But sometimes Yes, there it's not possible to have everything that gets promoted on Youtube right? That that is possible that you can't have you know the cake, the cream, and and everything and the beautiful point that it came on. So but for every client we are able to devise a structure that gets them, and they're like, Hey, I want this right to have. There is something, and and this works, and it may not be exactly what was promoted on A. Podcast, but we have a structure very, very, seldom to somebody say and hey, I don't want to do anything. It's more like Okay, now, that i've gotten educated and I see that, hey? There are a lot of ways to structure this, and I realized that maybe a that was promoted on. You know, Youtube video is not gonna work. But hey, I can do B C or d That is almost always that is the outcome and i'd say 99.9, 9% all cases. Yeah, that's that's an awesome point to kind of pivot the our discussion to that to the more up to the positive upside, and you know you're doing it correctly with knowledgeable people and also there, there is something there you know maybe it's not like the, you know, credible returns that you know you saw some clip of, you know, online. But there is something that's that's still there's still upside. There's still benefits and it like you said it did something that's gonna work, because you know there's a lot of creative people in the space like yourself. And the tax code is incredibly complex and broad. But there is ways of working through, You know, a lot of different things and and getting, they said some answer to some. It may not be the perfect answer you like but that's not life either, that you got exactly what you wanted. Yeah. and the the key thing is the real driver the investments right We don't provide investments right. But if you have a you asset that's going to drive investments that's going to drive that return, there's a retirement account structure that will allow you to use your retirement money for that and recognize and realize that incredible upside in a way that's going to be beneficial for you. But what really drives it is good in investments, and then we have an envelope, a wrapper, a retirement account wrapper. That will work for every profile. Yeah, that's an awesome awesome point to Bernard. You know it's the fundamental product is you know We're just making sure it's done correctly, you know. Optimize legally it's set up correctly and then of course you know we're you know, folks like herself myself, or in the space to provide those awesome investments. But you know the services that you're providing is like make sure it's done, you know, like like you said correctly. So Okay, man, where this has been an awesome conversation here we're gonna we'll wrap it up here soon, or well, yeah, just in a minute. any what's the best way and I can share this in the notes as Well, in the podcast knows what's the best way for folks to get in contact with you or your team. And what does that look like, or anything you want to promote as well? Book podcast? Newsletter. Yeah, who knows? you know maybe you'll be sending about free balloon or something? I don't know what are God going out there Okay, so what do they do in Jersey? Tell us so. i've got a passion and extends actually well beyond the specific products that re-sure financial all offers, which is really this kind of stuff. Financial education that in that is comprehensive and objective. So recently created a member. space for free to join and there's stuff there. obviously a lot of stuff about self-directed retirement accounts. Qrp. Sdi array 1031 exchange cost segregation, but there's also a lot of stuff about life. Insurance is State planning Lcs. Entities corporations. They will never, Just people never run out of questions on the stuff man, you know that. Oh, yeah, and it's more or less about just straight talk about this stuff. A lot of recordings, a lot of posts, a lot of webinars and members. That reshore financial com provides a way where we can organize it. My my hope is, though if there's a lot of content there I have not been active there super active, recently. Busy time a year. but there's incredible amount of content there we're, always putting out more content. We're just objective financial and tax information that's a great way to get educated to find us in a way that will definitely empower folks, no matter what they're looking at. Of course, our website is re-shore financial dot com for real estate tax services. And hit me up on linkedin i'm glad to connect beautiful man, all right. Well, folks think that's a that'll be a rap for us. thank you for connecting and listening to investing stuff. You know, podcast this has been phenomenal. I hope to get more guests on like Bernard here. That is an expert in his face and his shares.