The Digital Hammer: Tech's Impact on Traditional Construction, w Jennifer Castenson

Ready to see how technology is changing the way we build homes? 

Well, you've got to talk to the most innovative people on the bleeding edge of what's possible, and today, Jennifer Castenson is our guide.

She's got the know-how to use technology to help home builders. 

While she's a VP at BuildExact, her expertise goes beyond just one software. We'll talk about the latest tools and tech trends in construction and how they're improving things.

We'll also dive deep into the world of construction. 

It's more than just bricks and walls. Jennifer will tell us about things that can make a project succeed or fail, like what people want, rules for building, weather changes, insurance, land prices, and where people are moving. Plus, we have some excellent resources and names for those who want to dive deeper into building.

But wait, there's more! We'll learn about Jennifer's work with different groups and the Leading Suppliers Council. 

We'll also hear about the future of design and building, especially in smart homes. 

And finally, we'll touch on something close to Jennifer's heart: Miracle Travel Works, a group that helps families with sick members travel. Prepare for an exciting chat about tech, learning, and building homes. 

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Transcript

Johnny Nelson: 0:03

Well, everyone, we're going to kick off this podcast episode with Jennifer Kastason. So, jennifer, thank you for being with us and sharing the knowledge that you have in the construction tech and maybe even the affordable space and some other things. I know you've done a lot of interesting things and thanks for joining us here on the show today.

Jennifer Castenson : 0:20

It's an honor. Thank you for inviting me. I'm super excited to be here.

Johnny Nelson: 0:24

Delighted, delighted. So my kind of place I hang out a lot on the social media side is LinkedIn and I know you're active there and I've actually been hanging out more on Twitter. But then of course LinkedIn is kind of my go-to space and a lot of more people that are kind of on the serious side of you know, whatever venture you're in, tend to congregate in certain spots in social media. So I like what I saw, some of the things you're putting out there in the construction tech space and, as you know, whether it's investing in the affordable space or existing product, we both recognize the need to do construction differently fresh, not just the same old thing we've been doing for 100, 200 years, but with a fresh approach, fresh eyes, their demographics changing, the labor force is shrinking, all these problems there. So could you just kick off the convo about your own journey in the construction industry and what led you to your current role? Just kind of give a high level view of who you are for the audience.

Jennifer Castenson : 1:25

Yeah, for sure. So I've had the pleasure of working in a lot of different verticals within the construction space. I worked first for a developer and then was with a building products manufacturer for a number of years and then a media group. I worked at Zonda when I was there, it was Hanley Wood and then transitioned to Zonda, and now I am with a tech company called BuildExact and a startup in the space, and I'm a developer in the project construction project management software.

Johnny Nelson: 1:57

What? Just to talk about that real quick, I'm a general contractor, I used to be a general contractor, a technical engineer, so anyone that's been in the space or maybe has done flips or just any, basically, if you touch buildings, you you're aware of the challenges of running and managing construction projects. What is kind of the foundational ethos or thesis of the company? Why do they launch? What need did they see to fix?

Jennifer Castenson : 2:19

Sure, they saw basically that there are a lot of custom home builders and smaller models out there that don't have back office assistance, and so we're able to fill that gap with this one platform that actually puts all stakeholders together so a custom home builder or modeler can get in and, from from pre-design all the way to final invoice, manage a project on one platform. So you know, whereas other larger builders have a back end, they have admin, they have all these other functions in place, build exact as a tool that allows somebody to do that, and there's such a large marketplace out there for contractors, general contractors and custom home builders that this has been able to make, bring more transparency to the whole entire process and project and more efficiency, where before that's actually it's still in an evolution of moving from pen and paper to Excel to online. Absolutely.

Johnny Nelson: 3:28

Do they have an app, by the way, that to kind of integrate some of those on the job challenges that we all know about?

Jennifer Castenson : 3:34

Sure, absolutely so. We're launching an app. One of our best features as part of the software is our takeoff tool, so it's a little bit hard and sticky to manage on an app. However, we are launching an app for that that will be useful for most of the platform.

Johnny Nelson: 3:53

Amazing, amazing Now. So thank you for giving us kind of a detail there build exact. Give us a little background just on yourself. Did you grow up in the construction space, or was there family connections there or what kind of led you into that space? You know, we know it's a male dominated field, but there's obviously there's. You know we can't get enough people. It doesn't matter whether they're, you know, men or women or whatever. We need more people in the space, or what led you into that? Just, we know that story.

Jennifer Castenson : 4:16

Sure, yeah, so I just tripped on. It was in Dallas, texas, and my first job was with Hillwood Properties at Alliance Airport for Rosspro Junior's development, and I was doing PR and marketing at that point, so from there it was an easy foray into the other roles that I mentioned before.

Johnny Nelson: 4:38

Awesome, awesome. Let's talk about, since that is kind of this very specific spot there in the construction space. A lot of times we focus on, you know, like a new methodology, like a new you know way of cutting the wood or you know three, printing the concrete, it's my thought. So this is a very important space as well, that where you can't get the product out there or, like you said, all the back and stuff, the demands of technology, or just the demands of a business in America or across the world, in the developer world, all this, you know insurance and costing, and back, you know accounting, all these things that are consuming a lot of resources in the back end. So that's amazing that you've like, you've focused and tackled in that space. How would you say that kind of technology is shaping the future, or even the current, the present and the future of residential construction, especially in terms of affordability and efficiency.

Jennifer Castenson : 5:33

Oh my gosh, there's so many ways, as you know. There's, you know, the 3D printing, the capabilities of additive manufacturing. One of the things that I've been tracking for the longest, which I think will have a pretty large impact, is just manufacturing. So how are we taking building offsite and the efficiencies that that brings? Not only the efficiencies that it brings, but you know, the efficiencies lead to cost reductions for sure, but in all of that process you're also getting much more sustainable and efficient performing products. So that is also a huge aspect, because we don't just want to bring somebody a cheap product or a lower cost product. It has to be high quality and in that high quality there are elements of health and wellbeing that we haven't been able to focus on before when we're delivering affordable products.

Johnny Nelson: 6:35

And hopefully I mean maybe just to put this together for the listening audience of course we have high quality and affordable. We're hoping like a stack of all those kinds of different technologies, whether it's the actual materials or the delivery or the logistics or the back end hopefully that high quality and reduced costs can deliver a reduced final product to all the folks across the world. But let's just keep it with America that need affordable housing. Do you see that kind of like? Is that really the final point or is the focus more narrow than that?

Jennifer Castenson : 7:09

So I mean, I think that there's and it's not even more narrow, it's there's so many hoops and so many factors that go into all of that and we could peel back one of them and spend days peeling back one of them. So it's just such a compilation. And I would say one thing that one of your questions is about how does media influence the space? And I think that one thing that technology and media has done is given us access and transparency to data and when you're looking at those things, I haven't in my lifetime seen so much covered, so many frontline front page stories. I'm saying front page as an old way to say it, but Lead story, the first thing you see whether it's printed or an online right.

Jennifer Castenson : 8:09

Absolutely so much covered on the housing market, right? I mean, every day there's so much. That's all taking a look at what is the affordability and the different data sets, and I think as an industry we have to have some sort of consistency on those reporting and then also use that to help create the efficiencies and identify where the challenges are in the processes and then peel those back to cut out layers. I mean there's a lot of different ways that we can create more efficiency and reduce cost.

Johnny Nelson: 8:46

If you had to, we're speaking at a high level. If you had to just give the folks and myself just a few actual, tangible things, what are like the most promising, like we're talking about all the there's like the field is vast and there's lots of challenges and there's always areas we could focus on. What are like some three, what are? Give us two or three technologies or verticals that you really see like happening now, that are very promising and seem like they're good, like everyone's on board.

Jennifer Castenson : 9:15

Oh boy, let's see. I mean, I think that there's pretty, there's a pretty big chasm in what's happening with 3D printing for a while, okay, yeah.

Jennifer Castenson : 9:25

I mean, I think that's that to me has been pretty sexy and so it does get interest in buying from the industry and, I guess, more from the public.

Jennifer Castenson : 9:36

So I think that the big, big, big opportunity is just public education, because I think a lot of people think that any sort of developer is out there just to take land and make money. And I think that understanding or being able to show what goes into a project from consumer demand perspective like a consumer wants smart technology, they want healthy, they want sustainable, they want all these things or be able to respond to that plus to respond to building codes, plus to respond to increasing climate change and climate risk and to adapt to what's happening in the insurance marketplace All these factors the increasing cost of land in different areas, the migration patterns, all of those things have to go into a product for a consumer that the consumer is happy with and it's their biggest purchase, right? So it is such a complicated world and there's so much that a builder has to think about and if there's an education of that process that the consumer can identify with and or just be smarter about and more empathetic to, I think that we'd have a better ecosystem.

Johnny Nelson: 10:59

That's amazing insights and I think some of your just for the folks. You actually write for Forbes as well. So I kind of saw some of that journalistic kind of like bullet point fact, the details and the things that you consider high level details and how they kind of feed into that Also. But it also was a writer. If you just give us insight and something that you've done for Forbes and obviously I'm sure you've written for other publications, what is the best way, jen, to get that type of education? Like there's like we hear so much about education and there's lots of free stuff on YouTube what is right now the most effective way of getting kind of like that base level education to? Whether it's to the builders, because there's lots of educated, there's lots of it's so complicated, the builders need to be educated and kept up to date but also, like your focus in that last comment was, for the buying public, the house buying public.

Jennifer Castenson : 11:49

Yeah, so I'm no authority on this, but I have fun with it. I like to discuss this, but I think that when we're talking about this and education, there's no really single source of truth. But I do think that people can seek to find the truth and there are definitely some credible sources out there. So I think that it's just for people to find and to also check their sources.

Johnny Nelson: 12:20

So I think that who do you recommend Like I know you've worked for the NAHB and some other resources, you feel like those are good organizations to go to their website, or who do you recommend for people that?

Jennifer Castenson : 12:34

Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, I really like following what's, so I definitely focus on housing innovation.

Jennifer Castenson : 12:42

So I think that when I follow people, I'm looking at the fast company there's that just focuses on some of the new and emerging technology trends. I look at science journals. I look at, you know, really dig into and the things that I report on. I try to bring forward case studies that really show and compare to conventional mechanisms so that we can actually have data points and prove to the industry at large that there is a change dynamic there that they can actually adopt and be successful with. So I mean I think that you know, like I said, I think there's a lot of sources out there and I just I think all of them need to be checked, including myself, okay, well, just again, because I always like to.

Johnny Nelson: 13:33

As we go, we talk high level and deep, but I would like to give the folks, the audience, a little bit of like, actual you know, out of a recommendation. But how about what you do? Who do you like? Like you said, scientific journals and some other online publications or people. I guess I encourage my guests to be bold, like, hey, this is who I like, who I follow, who I've been following and enjoying. Can you give us two or three folks or entity that you've found to be helpful?

Jennifer Castenson : 14:00

Sure, absolutely. Adl Ventures. Nolan Brown he is tracking some of so with saying his name. I think that there's some VC groups out there that are really vetting some of the emerging innovators and technologies out there, so he's one of them for sure. Chris Langford is another one that I think is great, and there's some other like just some super high level thinkers that are trying to adopt technology and spur them forward. Ambassador Supply is another one. Brad Crawford is a CEO there, and I think that they're doing a great job in a really non-traditional role. They're doing a great job of identifying technology and bringing it forward.

Johnny Nelson: 14:48

Oh, I love that. Thank you for those resources. That's helpful for me because I am interested in this space as well and want to follow these people that are more and do it like some of these things. You're more in depth on it than me, so I want to follow the people that you find to be accurate and seem to be doing good work. So thank you for those points. Let's talk about your involvement with some organizations. I mentioned NAHB. What kind of as far as just building organizations, or even that one in particular, do you find them to be maybe this is too broad of a question, but maybe we could go somewhere with this. Do you find them to be pointed in the right direction and trying to do good work and helping builders get to the next stage and have an active ear for construction tech? What's been your perception of kind of the organizational attitude, the leadership?

Jennifer Castenson : 15:46

Yeah, so I can't speak to the leadership, but I do know that some of the committees that I'm participating in for instance, the leading suppliers council we as a group are trying to put together a contest and this is an ideation phase. So we're trying to put together a contest and display of how pre-fab and modular construction can improve affordability. So it's a group of manufacturers, consultants, service providers who are thinking of new dynamics and ways to highlight the potential of that solution. And we you know it's something that as a group we came up with and are trying to execute it for the International Builder Show and show off the potential of that as a solution, all to drive more affordability.

Johnny Nelson: 16:44

Awesome, I use the term and that's the National Association of Home Builders, and you just mentioned the International Builder Association, or Home Builders or Builders. That's great to hear from you.

Jennifer Castenson : 16:56

It was National Association of Home Builders.

Johnny Nelson: 16:57

National.

Jennifer Castenson : 16:58

As part of that, it's the Leading Suppliers Council.

Johnny Nelson: 17:02

Okay, awesome, Amazing, Amazing, Okay, cool. So I had a question here. So, on the Home Improvement Research Institute, what trends and insights can you share about the future of home improvement? So that's, I guess we're kind of pivoting a little bit from just like new product. Is there anything that's interesting? This is a kind of very niche question. Is there some interesting trend you see on existing? Obviously there's millions of homes, millions of existing homes, of commercial and residential, and maybe we'll just focus on residential. Is there some interesting things you've seen in the home improvement space that flippers and remodelers and some other people on all the existing stuff out there, anything that's caught your eye?

Jennifer Castenson : 17:42

Oh my gosh a ton.

Johnny Nelson: 17:44

Okay, seriously like here I fall into space and I'm just like, oh, just the normal plywood and home people and lumber and coal, that's all I know. Not at all Okay.

Jennifer Castenson : 17:55

So, first of all is that mortgages are more expensive, so people are trying to stay in place, or people are staying in place more. You know, the whole living of homes and moving is not happening as frequency as it was. Second of all, there's more remote work, so people are changing their space in order to adapt to working from home where they weren't before. Yeah, second of all, or third, excuse me, we just came through this massive pandemic and people realize how their space impacts their health and well-being, so they're making adaptations for that as well. And then, fourth, I mean I could probably go along, but so another one is that people and speaking this is kind of a subset of impacting your health and well-being but people are changing and adopting some of the ambitions of local governments, local jurisdictions, to remove gas.

Jennifer Castenson : 18:52

So changing, they're updating their appliances, they're updating, they're going to heat pumps. So it's a lot of different dynamics. And then another one is that there's a revenue stream, that's capability. So people are looking at EV charters just to save on energy costs, and or batteries and EV electric vehicles. All of that ties in together. And also another revenue generator might be adding an ADU, an accessory dwelling unit on your property. So a lot of that is happening all together.

Johnny Nelson: 19:32

That's amazing. That's amazing what? And so I guess like it's simply just like awareness kind of the certain things emerge from COVID and the pandemic and the work that kind of coincided or was precipitated by work from home or in the inverse of that. Either way, they're both there. What do you see as simply it's awareness? But then you see potential for revenue or like new design thinking or a little like some takeaways there that like people like could dig into, like oh, that's a new concept and new thought, potential for an architect or builder to focus in. What's kind of that. What's the summary? What's your recommendation there for builders and people in the space?

Jennifer Castenson : 20:11

Ooh, that's an interesting one. I think that it's bringing in energy consultants. As first and foremost on my mind so that's a huge part of retrofits and new construction is that it needs to meet our 2050 goals, and there are so many different elements that geospatial and beyond that impact how the house will perform. The other thing, coming from a totally different angle, is we are working from home, where the house is doing a lot more from home, and there are so many new technologies that facilitate that for us and our user experience as a homeowner. So, the smart home technology there can be a smart home consultant.

Jennifer Castenson : 21:00

We just talked to the Home Technology Association, josh Christian, and he's got templates for that. He also has a whole list of contractors, but there are. With that being said, I think just maybe a little step further in the future is how are you designing for deliveries, the drone deliveries and that people can leave at your house, and then all of that is kind of and then the community as well. So there's how are you designing for facilitating a better community for people?

Johnny Nelson: 21:46

So sounds like there's an opportunity there for maybe some newer I guess some new flavors of contractors perhaps, and then also maybe on the design side for architects or even architects at focus and architects, designers and whatnot that are focused, that are kind of forward thinking as well, and then, of course, maybe some existing contractors kind of thinking, all the different folks that would get excited and like, hey, this is a potential for an opportunity for a small business or some niche that's not being explored or tapped into. That's perhaps a demand. And also I don't go too deep on this one, but we know there's been tremendous amount of money unleashed by the Biden administration on retrofits and solar panels and upgrading these buildings, the existing stuff. So that's got to also be incentivizing first for businesses around the country to tap into that and say, hey, let's take an existing building and make it more energy efficient or smart things like that. Are you seeing a response there or a real surge of interest?

Jennifer Castenson : 22:53

So there is I have not seen a surgeon interest. I think that people are a little bit hesitant about it. Yeah, I do know. Even you know a presentation I saw just a few days ago they're still working through how to Propagate the inflation reduction act to the states and so that the states can execute on the dollars that they're being awarded. So that still isn't necessarily in place, and so I think once that does hit, then people will see that it is more tangible and start taking more action on it, hopefully.

Jennifer Castenson : 23:28

But I do think that the gates I mean I think the gate should open and I think there are, like I mentioned before, jurisdictions that are taking a step forward and and you know, getting rid of natural gas. Well, when they do that, that's gonna be when Contractors, I guess, feel like there's more of an opportunity to move forward and go to home buyers and homeowners and say, hey, you need to upgrade your system and this is what I can offer you. But, with all that being said, we should be able to now, at this point, say and you know, this is your property, this is what you're spending on energy, the this is how I can upgrade it, these are the credits you're gonna get back and this is your energy savings. So how does that balance out? Yeah, the rest of the life of your mortgage and it might break even. So I think more people need to put a pen and to paper and look at those numbers.

Johnny Nelson: 24:26

Okay, yeah, fair enough. Yeah, just for my education here, jen, Is the funding that's it's available through the inflation reduction act? Is that available now and states are just trying to like Streamline it or get a little more tighter guidelines so people know a little more precisely? Or and that is just kind of education and trying to clarify the some of the details of the process and is that money like available now to anyone in most states or is it really? Is it truly waiting on the states, at the kind of, I guess, the state level, to figure it out before it kind of trickles down to the municipalities and then eventually the Contractors and people that are that need the funding? Yeah, so I don't have. My arms are wrapped around that enough.

Jennifer Castenson : 25:08

Okay, yeah, and to tell you, no, that's a we don't want to, just two people that are not educated something to babble and just Add to confusion.

Johnny Nelson: 25:22

Let's see here let's I wanted to chat about.

Johnny Nelson: 25:27

I think we're just so cool. You you've been on all these panels and discussions here. Tell us what. What it was like being at the, the Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies, remodeling Futures event. I know maybe we're kind of talked about that, but was that? Is that pretty exciting to? I mean, I like to go to conferences, but obviously not being full-time Journalists. What not you got I have to be careful of the different conferences ago. There's a lot of their selectors I have to attend. What was that like? Was that very exciting? Was there a lot of energy and did you see some amazing thing? If you just talk, kind of talk to us about what you saw there, yeah, I know it's a great group.

Jennifer Castenson : 26:01

It's fabulous group. I know Abby, will and Carlos are heading up that group. They always have great data. We have good conversations. It's a very small and intimate group, okay.

Johnny Nelson: 26:11

Okay, that's probably something else I should have asked like how, how large is the, the group of the conversation?

Jennifer Castenson : 26:13

Yeah, yeah, but some of the leading groups that are Some of the leading entities that are part of the remodeling interest Industry excuse me Are there and we have great discussions about. You know what our pros looking for, what is happening, what's the forecast, what is the historically? How can that inform us? Yeah, it's a great conversation. I think you know. From my perspective, what we're doing at BuildExact is we're putting we're working together with the ABC collaborative, which is part of the United States Department of Energy, and the national labs To create a retrofit program that will go out to contractors and builders and help them through the process of not having to be Learn the the code or to learn how to bring a house up to code, based on the different zone that the house is in, the different climate zone the house is in, and just trying to facilitate that process for them through technology. So we're hopeful to launch that in a couple months and and that's part of what I get to share with the group that's awesome. That's awesome, kind of. In a similar vein, there's another.

Johnny Nelson: 27:33

That other one I wanted to point out that I shared with you was South by Southwest housing's need for innovation on a global scale. Who attended that? Like who was? Who was there? Was that a big group? Was there people from around the world, managers, us focused? And what was some kind of takeaways, that exciting takeaways from that, that conference or that event? Yeah, thank you, that was super exciting.

Jennifer Castenson : 27:53

That South by Southwest brought in the topic in general but we did have attendees from around the world.

Jennifer Castenson : 27:57

They were mostly entrepreneurs, investors, a lot of them developers in housing space, and the conversation basically was around modular and prefabrication and how the different. I had three different panelists and how they were using prefabrication to lower costs and some really good examples from mighty buildings, auto, vol. And then Joe Wheeler was from the Virginia Tech and he's done some projects like the solar decathlon and he's working with some other production builders here in the US. Oh, amazing, that sounds very exciting and innovative group. Do you really, do you truly see like? Yes, there's some cases they presented their gen, but did you see that? Are you convinced?

Johnny Nelson: 28:39

like, personally, that that is the future of building, or is like a combination or hybrid approach of you know, maybe it's traditional, maybe it's some 3D concrete printing or some kind of additive coupled with modular. What do you think is like? The right is the right approach, or is it a good approach? Or what do you do see kind of a synthesis, depending on the situation?

Jennifer Castenson : 29:10

Yeah, so I think you hit it there, which is I think that it is a hybrid approach. I think that we will more and more move away from conventional building, which is stick frame, and as we become smarter, with the prefab and mixing it with 3D or additive manufacturing, I think there will be a combination that will lead to panelization. You know, better performing panels, lighter panels, things that can go to site faster, easier things that can be developed differently. You know a lot of the building products that we have currently are made to be installed on site. So, whereas you know like a piece of drywall is for one person to carry, when we don't have that as a limiting factor, we can be a little bit more creative about the solutions we bring to the market and that that are creating better performing, and then we'll get rid of taping and mudding and all the other things that just take time and bog down the process.

Johnny Nelson: 30:15

Absolutely lots of, takes a lot, lots of labor, some injuries, very deep, you know, can be tedious, and as as labor it gets tightened or we have a demographic shift of older folk, then those things that we just kind of relied on or just kind of assumed become actual challenges and bottlenecks and then creating, you know, creating lots of sufficient homes and if we can skip that that's, that's an amazing way to skip over that, as we kind of taken into the last chapter here. Jen, what I see in your bio you, you're part of the nonprofit miracle, miracle travel works. Could you just show what? I have a little no idea what that is, but I find it to be intriguing and I like nonprofit work. What is that?

Jennifer Castenson : 30:58

Thank you for asking. That's awesome. So miracle travel works was started by my brother and a couple of his childhood friends and it's basically we're. We're regional now, which is Midwest states. We're here to help families travel with their kids who need critical care. So there's like six of us who have been running the organization for a dozen years and we've helped 900 families. We've raised more than a million and do it all ourselves and it's super. It's super fun and awesome.

Johnny Nelson: 31:32

Amazing, amazing. Can you give us any like a case example here? I don't know, just can you just walk us through like a typical case what a family experience and how they were contact with you?

Jennifer Castenson : 31:44

Absolutely so. Somebody in, let's say, in Altoona, iowa, has a baby that's born with a fetal heart disorder and the specialist for that is in Cincinnati, Ohio, and they have to travel with their child and a lot of times when that happens, you know, somebody has to quit their job because it's full time job taking care of that child. Yes, lose that income plus, you know, the insurance doesn't cover a parent traveling. And so we, we do that and they, basically all they have to do is like submit a paper to us and we make it super easy administratively, which you know they're dealing with all this other stuff emotionally and mentally and physically, and so we, we flatten the burden.

Johnny Nelson: 32:31

That's amazing. That's amazing and I've, I've, most people have, gone through, you know, medical challengers, medical emergencies. My dad passed away from a brain tumor Many years of that. That was, you know, terribly, incredibly stressful, and not that that's unique, but those things are real, they happen all the time. So that's so exciting and encouraging to hear that kind of organization and clearly, if I hear myself of some of some individual or family, it's in need. You know that's, I know I know, to be able to spread that, that around and ensure that thing, that's great, that's awesome.

Johnny Nelson: 33:03

So let's take it up, let's wrap up in the final chapter, into the final chapter here. What, what is your kind of? So, yes, you're, you're working for build exact right now. What is your? I'll let you just get kind of a final picture and then I'll ask you kind of a more of a personal question here what's, what's the best way to get in touch with build exact and who is your ideal target market or customer there?

Jennifer Castenson : 33:26

Thank you, I'm bill. Exact calm is the best way and you can sign up for a demo or trial there. And our ideal customer profiles basically a custom home builder or remodeler that does less than 10 million a year and that does probably 10 to 20 projects a year. So awesome.

Johnny Nelson: 33:48

Yeah, I know a handful of builders like that. And what is what is? What is the? I don't know if you could share a minute. It's not fair, but what is like kind of like gives approximate cost the cost, additional cost of what you do. Obviously it's it's value, I'm sure it's valuable to save into additional costs. What does that look like for the casual listener, casual ability, like? I'll give you again the shout to see if it's worth my time.

Jennifer Castenson : 34:09

Yeah, so there's three different tiers of pricing. So you a pro entry and it's on a monthly basis, so depending on what your needs are, and then there's an annual package where you can save a couple months.

Johnny Nelson: 34:27

Okay, awesome, awesome. And so the final question here what are you most excited about? This is like you, because you have such an amazing perspective and you going to these amazing conferences and talking to all the people in the know. What do you see? Why this person? What are you most excited about? What do you see for the future, for yourself or where you want to, where you hope to what you, where do you hope to see more of across the building space?

Jennifer Castenson : 34:52

Collaboration collaboration bottom line is just more transparency, more collaboration, and I see you know there are some people out there that are just so passionate and just a beautiful thing about sharing their innovation so that it goes to scale, and I just want to see more of that.

Johnny Nelson: 35:10

Amazing. Well, that's a fantastic place to wrap this up. So thank you for a great interview, talking through just a variety kind of high level topics and getting deep on a few. We thank you for sharing your time with us, and then, of course, all my listeners here be sure to give us a thumbs up, a like, share the word. And then, of course, what's the best way to get you know? Yes, they're built bill exact, but what's the best way to get in touch with you, jen?

Jennifer Castenson : 35:36

And then just about Lincoln and beginning. I'm very active on LinkedIn, so Jennifer Kaston's and look me up on LinkedIn and thank you so much. It's been a huge pleasure and great questions. I really enjoyed our time today.

Johnny Nelson: 35:47

Amazing. Until next time, thanks all.